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Post by ISK8pdFrmaLab on May 19, 2019 8:26:45 GMT
I thought I would open up a thread where everyone can add their own input without fear of reprisal or ridicule - if I missed this thread before please diregard. No sense beating a dead horse.
But if this is a new venue, please feel free to share your opinions! I really find myself fascinated to learn what other theories abound regarding this cryptid.
I will begin.
Personally I think dogman is a flesh and blood animal, just not the same kind of flesh and blood that we accept as natural. There are depictions of dog headed creatures going back thousands of years, and of course, Anubis was followed by ancient Egyptian priests, presenting a very long standing belief in creatures similar to dogmen by our long dead relatives.
I also believe that these creatures are not natural to our type of existence. Many accounts associate dogmen with burial mounds, graveyards, death (Egyptian pantheon, etc.), violence, curses, skinwalkers, black magic (Tulpas, witchcraft, summoning and transformation rites), demonology, possession, lycanthropy, and the list goes on.
Everything connected to these creatures places them squarely within abomination territory, from past to present. Absolutely no historical record exists that presents them as helpful, kind, cooperative, man's best friend on two legs, who just looks mean.
No. They seem to manifest at certain conditions, timed or otherwise, to perform some task, then depart again to parts or planes unknown. And they are never happy about meeting people. If these were creatures that had mutual cooperation as an interest, I have been unable to find any supporting data for it. What I have collated so far is about three hundred years of "these things are bad news."
The data suggests they are corporeal, as in, flesh and blood, rather than an incorporeal such as a ghost.
As I study accounts, read books and listen to experiencers sharing encounters, it becomes clear that dogmen leave behind tracks, spoor, and can and do cause damage to materials here in this reality. This suggests they are a physical creature that has mass, weight, and is affected by gravity and other forces of nature, perhaps more than we can guess.
Yet, they seem resistant to harm, or somehow reduce damage that would otherwise prove lethal. Perhaps the shooters were simply missing their mark due to combat stress or "Buck Fever" but it is impossible to say for certain. Other accounts claim they have been killed by several shooters using shotguns and bear traps, and at least one account has one killed by being run over by a semi truck.
There were accounts of them bleeding, screaming in pain when fired upon, and other indications that these creatures have flesh bodies. I just do not think it is the type of flesh that a wolf or coyote has. They are somehow much tougher.
Which is where the black magic element comes into play. If a coven summons one or whatever conditions are met that bring one into our reality (I have no idea how this is done nor do I want to), it arrives, does it's tasks then is released from servitude, either dematerializing or lingering for generations.
Well, that's my opionion. Fleshies, but weird fleshies.
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Post by virtusblack on May 20, 2019 3:27:05 GMT
You are absolutely correct and I am so glad you posted this. They have been seen doing all of the above. Yes they leave tracks, but sometimes the tracks lead to the middle of an open field and then NOTHING. Poof. Gone.
*The Skinwalker Ranch scientists said they observed a portal open and one climb out of it on a thermal cam... Regular cam picked up nothing.
*The linda godfrey documentary (and separately heard radio interviews with her and land owner) had a new land owner bordering bray road that said he's seen a "mist form out of nowhere" over deer carcasses and the next day the carcass is mutilated or missing and there's tracks going FROM the deer but to nowhere before disappearing...
So I agree, they are flesh and blood. They influence the physical world, eat stuff, get shot, bleed, yet they come and go from "the other side" and can be invisible at will. Well that sounds like a physical earth bound being AND a ghost at the exact same time. Our perception is off.
Brenton Sawin explains this pretty good. In the Bible, angels could do exactly what dogmen do. They ATE FOOD with humans, influenced the physical world, yet had superpowers, could disappear and come into and out of this "dimension" at will...
So I don't think we're talking about animals that live in the woods... These things were worshiped as gods for a reason. These things are outside agents. I would argue agents for the bad guys...
The Native Americans understood this concept well. They call bigfoot "spirits", yet we know and see bigfoot as a physical being... I would argue they are no different than dogmen. I think they're outside agents as well. They exhibit much of the same characteristics in the physical as well as the supernatural.
If you can swallow all that, the universe just got a lot bigger.
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Post by ag47 on May 20, 2019 3:58:48 GMT
Great topic and very interesting theories. I'm thinking what if they are (at least at times) solid matter, maybe even flesh and blood, but sometimes maybe just homogenous matter generated as a projection into our dimension. Perhaps how far they protrude into our dimension may dictate how much they are affected by material things here (like weapons). Think something like holo-matter from Star Trek, or moving 3d printouts/avatars. The big wolf at Skinwalker didn't seem to feel the gunshots until chunks were being blown off of it, then it looked like, "Oh, I'm getting destroyed, maybe I'd better go." At no time did it seem to feel actual pain, at least that's how I read the accounts of the event. They said the chunks they blew off of it and picked up were like rotting flesh that had been dead a long time. Please don't put me in a straight jacket, lol.
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Post by virtusblack on May 20, 2019 5:09:06 GMT
No you bring up a good point. It's not the same across the board. Neither white or black but a spectrum. Invisible but making foot prints... Shot but no blood or pain... Shot and knocked down AND blood AND pain... Really where I'm a little confused is the supposed offspring people claim to have seen... I can't say it's "not true", but I'm a little more skeptical, or at least lacking information. There's something we're missing there. That might be the biggest difference between bigfoot and dogman that I can come up with is the lack of offspring we seem to see with dogman. With bigfoot it's common, with dogman it's rare. Those things considered, I wonder if there are different types. Like one being a black magic type phenomenon, one being a "spirit" or "agent" on a specific mission who just blips in to do his thing and then blips out, and then another type that may be around long enough to mate, and another type that is more of a projection made of ectoplasm that rots or dissolves rapidly... I was just talking to my wife about how ALL this info would have been at the library at Constantinople... All the knowledge and stories for thousands of years had been compiled and stored there until it was destroyed, now the internet is basically rebuilding it one forum and youtube video at a time, lol. No wonder "they" want to censor the internet, bunch of fricken jerks.
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Post by ISK8pdFrmaLab on May 20, 2019 5:56:44 GMT
Ag47, It sounds like you are describing a Tibetan ritual called a Tulpa. Think of it as a constructed suit controlled by the summoner like a pilot. Yeaaah. Bad news critters.
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Post by Adam23 on May 21, 2019 5:46:09 GMT
This was an incredible discussion! I wanted to add that though they appear to be annoyed or angry when they encounter humans, I believe they are energized by our fead, it it emotional fuel for them, they seem to intentionally scare and terrorize
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Post by virtusblack on May 21, 2019 7:37:17 GMT
Yes, you are correct. I did a fairly thorough point by point break down on this site of all the things we KNOW about them and that was on the list... Along with being fascinated by children, peaking through and tapping on Windows and other such creepiness lol. They're not the good guys....
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Post by Con on May 22, 2019 0:11:54 GMT
I think they're flesh and blood for sure, perhaps very tough. My opinion on the origin of these guys, the more grounded hypothesis, is that they're from the ice age, and grew up alongside us as sapient beings. They've developed tough hides to deal with all of the threats nature could throw at us back then, and because they were such apex predators and so intelligent, they've continued existing. That's the boring hypothesis though, let's get interesting...
I've always found the idea of parallel universes fascinating. With stories like His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman, there's a lot of tales out there that deal with the concept of parallel universes. Perhaps that's where dogmen come from, through some odd portals, gateways or weak points throughout the world. A lot of people have reported stepping through doorways, flying through clouds or simply walking through the woods and realising that they're not where they're supposed to be. People even say that they time travel, which for all we know (if it's true) could be a parallel universe younger than ours. Dogmen could perhaps come from an alternate reality where there are some horrific creatures, and they've simply evolved to deal with them, hence the tough hides and mean disposition. They're totally apex predators here, but they could be in our position wherever they're from. Now it's an absolutely weird theory and I like to stick to the ice age one myself, but for funsies I like to think about this kind of stuff.
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Post by jackstagger on May 22, 2019 8:04:27 GMT
I have a few theories that go along loosely with what has already been mentioned. I've heard of people blowing the heart right out of a whitetail and having it run off and die in a rotten bunch of brambles 50 yards away, so hearing accounts of sucking chest wounds having no immediate effect doesn't surprise me. Big game animals are taken in the head or brainstem for this reason. You turn any mammal's head into a canoe and it goes down, don't wanna sound like a bloodthirsty hick or anything but that's how it is. When you factor in how spiteful these animals seem to be once scorned, a trait regular to large cats instead of wolves, you realize that pot shots are a pretty bad idea.
They are an apex predator, but an odd one. The most successful apex predators are not especially intelligent at all, they are apex predators because of their unique abilities to survive aeons by force. Wolves are almost unique in the aspect that they use intelligence to find the path of least resistance to their desires and longterm survival, they creatively try new things, and they have deep social structures that give significant regard to overarching survival imperatives. Wolves are some of the most sensitive (I mean that in a clinical way) creatures you will ever meet. Gators, sharks, big cats, etc. mostly rely on dumb luck and persistence at being slightly above their direct competition. Compared to the Orca, a pack hunting but adaptable and intelligent apex predator mammal itself flourishing without much worry, it makes me curious as to why this is. The dogman seems to display many traits that are classically gathered from hunting on plains within a pack, yet alone can display a primal intelligence that is equally resourceful applying chase and tire tactics within the complexities of deep woods or swamp. It's adaptability and yet inability to flourish, at least apparently so, is odd given they are said to have existed in North America for so long. There are plenty of realistic explanations, but of course no real answers. Perhaps it's their caloric or migratory demands simply can't support large populations in what we would consider small areas, the rarity of encountering a viable mate, low litter numbers or birth rate— all realistic possibilities in my mind.
That's really everything I am sure of about them. A remarkable combination of brawn and brains, with a heaping dose of fearlessness. Not something I would imagine being easily marginalized into a less than prominent station within the food chain. I mentioned wolves and their social structures with survival imperatives, they will control their own numbers to scale to the food supply and punish individuals for "dishonesty". They are spiteful to each other, but not really towards threats or prey. Big cats in packs are the opposite socially, they don't seem to scale their numbers to the food supply and even solitary cats are exceptionally scornful towards threats and prey. You screw with a big cat and it's likely to return the favor directly sooner or later, you screw with a wolf and you never see it again. Their penchant for "playing favorites" with people makes me wonder how far removed from its social structure it sees humans. There are accounts of it running with wolves and coyotes, and while they're not man's best friend, perhaps we're still more than a simple friend of a friend to them. That's not especially a good thing since modern man's ancestors have had a mercurial relationship with other species of hominids (direct competitors), and wolves tend to browbeat each other in blood.
Whatever explanation for where they came from needs to be congruent with those points and concerns in my personal opinion. They are the most recurring elements across all the accounts I have heard, not necessarily because I see them as the most logical or telling observations. If I had to take a guess where they came from, I would say the cauldron of evolution. Currently, I believe they are a natural creature wholly born of Earth. If everything in my wildest dreams were true, the government unlocked laboratory applicable time dilation and tissue to full organism cloning capabilities, granting the ability to process aeons of breeding generations in mere decades to create dog soldiers. We are in the beginning of the glass age, where the petri dish and microscope will be king. Dogman is obviously the first thing any self-respecting black project super soldier program should crank out if they could. The effect on enemy morale would be devasting if you could even train five or six of them for anything red vs blue and weapon/combatant ID. Remember, we're talking about people who can manufacture the most universally toxic substance known to mankind and can't even keep it from escaping a barrel, so a few dog soldiers getting out into the wild by mistake is no stretch in my imagination. In the end I'd believe anything, if it were true.
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Post by ISK8pdFrmaLab on May 24, 2019 4:11:35 GMT
I was thinking there may be DARPA lab versions of these things too, but then how could there be so much old mythology about them if they were newly created?
If the lab version is indeed running around out there, do you think the creators based it upon old myths?
A few years ago scientists were tinkering with the idea of creating wooly mammoths.
Maybe they went a different direction and cooked up a batch of dog soldiers instead. justifiable funding?
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Post by whitefeather on May 26, 2019 16:08:11 GMT
My opinion is that it is an artificially introduced species. To my knowledge the fossil record does not support it's being a long-term inhabitant.
Lacking an evolutionary history, I would guess that it's either a man-made hybrid of some type or an animal that is native to a different plane of existence. As far as I know string theory's hypothesis that our universe has 11 dimensions has not been disproven. Assuming that's true, it's not a big leap to other planes that are inhabited by living beings.
Considering the vast distances between stars and planets, and the extreme radiation found in open space, either of the above scenarios seems more plausible than them being extraterrestrial.
Of course, that's just an opinion, and is subject to change based on new information.
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Post by Con on May 26, 2019 16:50:26 GMT
Interesting theories there. With any theory regarding dimensions or universes there's basically no end to what could be out there, all from alternate histories to outright Lovecraftian horrors.
Regarding them having no fossil record, perhaps it's being covered up? It wouldn't surprise me if certain groups of people wouldn't want this to get out. Paranormal stuff like ghosts are all over the place and yet almost no scientific groups even give it a full night's investigation before outright denying it.
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Post by jackstagger on May 27, 2019 6:46:17 GMT
I think the notion that our planet could inadvertently cause rifts between parallel dimensions simply through geological processes is extremely compelling, though what scientific evidence there is of that is surely guarded very closely. The dimensional castaway theory is one that I have to admit would make a lot of sense explaining many things, but I wonder if there is an outstanding credible account that makes people consider that explanation for dogman. It's possible for a single breeding pair of dogs to have offspring with a range of genetic expressions to the point of not even resembling either parent, but I haven't heard an account where any of the many diverse dogmen displayed anything that would indicate inbreeding. It would have to happen given a limited available gene pool, but I can't speculate on the severity or length such a genetic malaise could effect canines (or whatever dogman is). Nobody has gotten the kind of up-close time to really look for anything like that, anyway.
I also wonder if a different government or wealthy organization either created them or caught on before anyone else and decided to "follow the ball" so to speak. I don't really think mankind had a role to play in their creation, maybe their presence though.
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Post by whitefeather on May 27, 2019 12:37:58 GMT
Con and jackstagger,
Your assertions are perfectly reasonable.
I based my opinions on the simple facts that, at least once before in history (Nazi Germany) we've tried to crossbreed humans with other species, and that the equations Einstein and other Scientists developed to understand the universe only work out if there are ten dimensions of space and one of time.
That math is far beyond my ability to grasp, so forgive any inaccuracies, but that's the gist as I understand it.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I wanted to approach the Dogman question somewhat critically. It's the easiest thing in the world to start from any "Lovecraftian" premise you want, and for all we know the truth may be found in one of them.
When I do that myself the question becomes too big, and I can't find a toe-hold.
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Post by Con on May 27, 2019 15:57:04 GMT
I can totally see the Nazis doing that, they did all sorts of insane stuff. Hitler was pretty interested in the supernatural actually, he had a bunch of scientists looking into it. I wonder what they found, if anything?
Yeah I get you, I just mentioned Lovecraft since it's not always mentioned when talking about the multiverse in real life. I'm the same with supernatural and paranormal phenomena, a lot of people tend to lump them all into one category since I imagine it's a lot easier to digest, whether it be demons or jinn, aliens or the government.
I always look at things separately, if I went around believing everything was aliens or demons, I'm leaving out a whole host of possibilities and opening myself up for getting the metaphorical legs taken out from under me. I look at it individually (dogman being a physical species, ghosts belonging to their area and spirits being somewhat related to that field etc) and try and categorise certain things based on outside evidence and their relations to what I've experienced and felt. That's why I'm always super hesitant to blame any one group for these kinds of things, because for all we know there could be dozens of separate factors all playing into this.
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