There are two ways these are used; first is upon the ritualist, as they perform and receive the magical skin over themself, a perverse kind of self transformation illusion (actually asking for an outside entity to possess their body).
Secondly, it can be used as a kind of targeted ‘curse’ upon an unsuspecting person. The warlock specifies someone who then suffers this unwanted affliction (asking for an outside entity to possess someone else).
I will not cite sources; but will share that Summers’ works will quote from a dizzying number of them, including the Malleus Maleficarum (sp) and many others.
I thought I would open up a thread where everyone can add their own input without fear of reprisal or ridicule
Oh good! I usually get ridiculed before anyone asks me to elaborate on my point of view.
What do you think they are?
Well, that's my opionion. Fleshies, but weird fleshies.
Here's my gripe with most of speculation. We already HAVE a platform for this creature that goes back hundreds, if not thousands, of years. It's there, it's established, and it SEEMS that no one is willing to research it with a grain of salt and the understanding that these people, hundreds of years ago, were just trying to explain the phenomenon based upon their world-view at that time. [snip]. And in conclusion, I don't think we can assume that the transformative element of werewolves can't exist simply based on our current worldview. Just because we don't understand the mechanics of something doesn't mean it doesn't happen (go ahead, tell me how gravity works ). These things are huge, freaky, allegedly display both canine and human tenancies, and have been whispered of for the better part of 2000 years. We need to stop acting like this is some breeding population of apex predator, living under our very noses, that we don't know about; if this is a purely-animalistic death machine that could easily eat a human without conscious thought, it would probably be doing so more often, and we'd probably know about it. I agree, there are numerous mentions of 'men changing into wolves' thru out history, across many different cultures (including Native Americans), I believe there is something to this. I DO NOT believe these things are normal animals, if they were, we would have ALOT more sightings and encounters. I think the reason why they are so rare, is because they are not always in this form, and it also explains why so many sightings are close to metro and residential areas. I have a sneaky feeling the people that have this 'ability', they are transients, probably move around among the homeless population and live off the grid for the most part.
Been thinking about dogmen a fair bit recently. I still stick to the flesh and blood theory (sapient wolf people essentially) purely from a more rational, if that's possible with this kind of subject, standpoint.
However, the more I look into it and listen to these stories, the more I entertain the werewolf idea seriously. Brandon makes a good point about the apex predator side of things. And these things are cropping up in places like the UK, which is fairly well populated and lacks the large wilderness parks of the US. I remember one story from Vic's channel where the guy was driving through a snowstorm, the road closed behind him by the authorities and he encountered the lone car in the middle of nowhere then the dogman. Sort of like if a person had wanted to shapeshift in peace, they'd take a road that they thought nobody would be using at that time and "wolf out" as it were. Hence why the dogman was eating the kill at the side of the road. Surely nobody would be willing to risk a snowstorm on that stretch of road.
I know for sure that there's supernatural stuff in the world, ever since I was a kid. Didn't think I'd take the werewolf idea seriously, especially as a general fan of werewolves in fiction. It's a little exciting to think about how your favourite monster might actually be real.
Ive been listening to a lot of different shows lately, Vics show and the late Brenton Sawin...Ive noticed in quite a few reports, the Dogman is said to smile or smirk at the witness, another thing I hear frequently is, they are attempting to open car/house doors, in one of them, it was trying to reach inside and unlock the truck door...(this is HUMAN level intelligence!!) Im not sure why there are hardly any reports of someone witnessing the 'transformation' though, if its supernatural in origin, the transformation could be instantaneous for all we know, I really believe there are more witnesses out there, maybe some who have seen the transformation...Ive heard from 2 people so far that make this claim and both of their descriptions were nearly identical (and they did not know each other). They basically said it looks like the movies portray it, except its a bit slower process...
I dont doubt what they saw, but I have to wonder, when this transformation takes place...where does the hair, claws, snout, etc COME FROM...How does a 5ft 10" guy transform into an 7ft tall werewolf...where does the extra 'mass' come from? I have NO idea whatsoever!
That's definitely an interesting question. I've heard tales of ghosts lifting things up far higher than a human can. If that's true, you've got to wonder how someone who's not even in the physical world could even do that. The energy expenditure would off the charts.
It's one of those questions that when we answer it, we'll be left with even more questions.
Here's an experience of a former l.a. Cop named Jesse Romero who is a famous Catholic apologist . Romero was being interviewed by Dr.Taylor Marshall , a catholic theologian . Romero is also an experienced demonologist that helps people get exorcisms as well as helps the priest during an exorcism . He recounted how one of the Hispanic women he helped get free was the child of a family deep into occult magic in Mexico . Her father would send her to a type of summer camp for kids who's parents were ooccultists. she told him of one experience where the speaker at the summer camp called everybody's attention and turned into a giant black wolf right in front of everybody's eyes . Then the wolf ran in a circle around the group of kids about ten times and then instantly became a person again . ......so yeah . Then recently I was watching a video of a Navajo Ranger cop tell of his experiences with skinwalkers on the Navajo reservation . Very detailed . I found it interesting g that the people who did the deed to access this ability were refered to by him as "it" , even in their human form . The Ranger was addressing a MUFON gathering somewhere . I've been down there and the folks there accept these things as part of reality . Was also watching a Catholic exorcist address a youth group in Texas . A Hispanic young man , in the Qand A told how at one youth group meeting they had a kid go into convulsions during the prayers . So they prayed over the kid for an hour or so till he came around . The young man telling the story recounted that on the way home , he and the other youth groupers in the suburban heard a loud howl , followed by something slamming into the passenger door where he sat . The driver lost control and went in the ditch . The young man , who led the deliverance prayers during the youth group meetings , was injured but not severely . The priest said that the demonic don't like it when one of theirs is taken and will often times retaliate , so it's best to be cautious when dealing with the dark side .
I think the Navajo Ranger addressing MUFON is linked below. I caught it a while back and thought it was interesting. Mentions a story of skinwalker transformation from coyote, which was shot with a .22, back into human while in the grip of the man who tried to kill it for going after his sheep. www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEA1G8efmuc
I listened to a good bit of one of the Romero/Marshall interviews/discussions. From the sound of it you'd think Mexico and CA are packed to the gills with avid satanists. I just can't imagine people putting in the effort to be a "good" devil worshiper. Maybe satan doesn't have high standards or require quality followers because when I see some numbnut calling him or herself a "satanist" they seem to be all pose, not much different from that guy who is Christian for an hour on Sunday. If one outwardly declares oneself to be a satanist it's for shock value or a spookydarkrazorthinimage. I imagine there are a few dedicated broken souls out there plying the "trade"-- maybe even to some effect, IDK. Perhaps satan only needs one to dabble and that's bargain enough--soul sold. I know a lot of the new age movement stuff, even yoga or tarot cards are often considered "of the devil" to many Christians but that is quite a stretch to go from meditating on a tarot card, practicing asanas or creative visualization to sacrificing babies to the horn-ed one or many, I mean can a demon even be a unity???
Back to our quarry, the DM. I've never heard of a story, biblical or otherwise where a demon is physically incarnate. I imagine the tales are out there but I'm hesitant to think werwolves/DM are incorporeal, reports describe a very present physical creature. If an actual demon, why incarnate into matter anyway. Not as if there are answers to these questions but one can speculate. The idea of a glamour of sorts seems plausible, as mentioned in here somewhere in a post from ISK8pdFrmaLab. A willingly or unwillingly possessed individual appears as a werwolf to onlookers via some ritual or curse, how that happens I've no idea. The Navajo Rangers mentioned in that presentation that the skinwalker is far worse than what films have made werewolves to be and apparently they've had a few run-ins.