Bee
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by Bee on Oct 21, 2019 12:21:24 GMT
I was hesitant to bring this story here and even tell anyone about it due to the weird nature of it, but I see other sharing and I am hoping someone could have a " I have an idea what this could have been" type of answer for me.
little background: I am originally from New Zealand. I was an horse trainer and lived literally at the foot of the mountains. Know all different wildlife and could say i had no fears ever walking at night through the woods--have lived my whole life doing this with no issues ever.
I come to USA and my husband knows how much i love the woods so takes me on my first trip to MT Hood. He decides to surprise me with staying in a " random off the beaten path place" its legal to be there but its not a campsite or anything. Imagine a 7 hour drive and not seeing a car or soul for about 2-3 hours. That's how far into the woods we were.
So we set up and I take a walk around the entire place. First time in American woods and I am bloody excited. I go chop some wood for a fire and splash round in the river (6 feet from where out camp site is).
Afternoon turns to late afternoon and we both take a walk along the winding river, forest is thick mostly something like pine trees, but you can see space between. We sit to chat and enjoy the silence--dead silence i may add which I have never heard before?
Then my husband say's don't look behind you.. I say what the hell--don't say that that's like a horror movie line to scare people. He said lets get out of here I just saw something watching us from that tree. I look and we heard 2 feet running like lightening and i saw a tall shadow but that's all I saw.
I said what was it? was it a man and he said it stood up like a man so it was maybe some pervert watching us, maybe a criminal hiding out here? I thought that is bloody weird who would be out here just peeking at us from that tree. It felt wrong. But I didn't question him.
We got back to out tent and I couldn't let it go, the logic of a single man being out just stalking us then bolting off like lightening speed just didnt make sense. . So I decided to investigate and see if anyone was around. I told him i needed to do something and he said yell if you need me. I found claw marks in the dirt and the size was of a dinner plate. I saw them next to some type of poo. Id never seen poo that big or so weird looking I couldn't identify.
I found no evidence of anyone in the area and I even did a 20 min walk on foot along the road seeing if anyone was camping out like we were. Nothing and not a soul. Not even one car drove past. So weird.
I thought maybe he saw a bear... then didn't worry to much about it after finding no humans around.
Got back to camp, made some Tea and was sitting looking at the river with the thick woods to my back. I started getting very dark and death type feelings, like something is watching me then this idea flowed through me that something is going to kill me but stalk me then attack once darkness falls. It was like something was laughing at me about it to like it was funny. Weird to say this but this is what it was like. It was a terror like nothing that could ever be imagined. I was sweating now and absolutely terrorized, as this feeling felt so real and I kept looking in the direction this feeling seemed to come from which was from that thick wooded area behind me and I couldn't see anything.
It got so bad I couldn't function normally and told my husband. He laughed and said I was just a Kiwi and didnt know american woods. I said like hell mate something is planning to kill me out there and I can feel it watching me 24/7. I asked him could a bear be emanating its ideas to me and he said that's not usual for animals to do and maybe im just not used to the deep woods.
He didn't believe me so he just said look face the woods if you feel the need and I have a gun so you wont need to worry.
Then when he mentioned the gun this some weird emotional feeling came at me saying" A gun wont stop me nothing can save you if i choose to get you" ... Now this is why i have never told anyone this because it sound bloody crazy. But there was something sending me some real dark vibes and I knew it wasn't me.
Im literally at this point like a crack addict looking left and right left and right, planning to see this thing when it comes at me.. Nothing happened then darkness fell over us.
I am listening but its dead silent, I cant even hear little bugs making sounds. I cant take the suspense so I go to the tent and my husband is still laughing at me.
He joins me 20 mins later gives me a hug and realizes im feeling like deaths coming. He hugs me and he drifts off to sleep.
I get that vibe again and its like its playing a game with me to make me more scared... I know something is out there then I hear something walking to the tent and I am making getaway plans in my head--when i hear breathing at the tent right by my head. I see nothing because its pitch black but there is silence dead silence so I can hear something outside my tent right by my head. I freeze and cannot even breath, i am too scared to move my hand to grab my husbands hand because i know if it hears anything we're dead.
Then boom it hits the tent and the entire thing shakes. My husband startles awake --he gets mad at me thinking i did this to scare him... I said its not me there is something out there. He hears this sound like a big old buffalo breathing as if it smoked for 30 years. He finally believes me and whispers Im loading the gun.
Then movement hitting into the tent again. he said ok this is serious if it happens again and this thing breaks in you run and follow the river up stream and I will stay and fight it off with the gun--give you a chance to escape. Something moves and as soon as my husband grabs the gun and makes that loading sound there is silence again....
we do not sleep after this. I am alert like hell and morning finally comes and I go outside and see claw marks in the dirt like dinner plate size and again with this huge pile of weird poo and think... is this a monstrous bear and it can send feelings to me in my mind? But then my husband says iv'e never seen bears foot that big it could have been a Kodiak or giant grizzly just passing through.
We were both so shaken we packed up and ran like hell out of that place.
Sorry so long.. but Can anyone just tell me if they think this was a big bear? Do bears send feelings to your mind like this?
I am pretty sure ive never heard of this before but I am also not a American native. This had bothered me for years because ive never had a forced emotion come over me like this that totally crippled my emotions and body and i feel like i cant rest until i know what the hell it was.
Thanks guys!
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Post by ag47 on Oct 21, 2019 13:28:33 GMT
Thanks for sharing your story, Bee! I'm hoping others will also continue to post their true encounters like this. I am not a scientist or investigator, but I know we've all read and heard many accounts of people getting emotions from dogman, bigfoot, and other unknown things they encounter. They usually describe sheer terror and fear for their lives like in your account. People who say they have encountered UFOs and aliens also describe non-verbal or telepathic communication. I'm so sorry your husband trivialized your warnings. That had to make it exponentially worse. My spouse can sense things (like if someone died in a place, or if there's something spiritually dark in a place). I don't feel what she feels, but I always give her credence. There are places where I tried to take her to show her around and she balked like a horse encountering a snake on a trail, and wouldn't go another step. One room in a building where I tried to take her, she stopped halfway down the hall and said, "There's something in that room, " and said she was not going any further. In that case I had felt it too, but I believed her anyway. I know of another case where someone I know told me of a harrowing supernatural experience she had in another room. She brought a lady who is a sensitive or medium to check it out and that lady balked at the threshold of the room and would not go in it at all. She was genuinely afraid for her safety. All these types of things say to me that we can see and feel things through senses we may not know we have, or that have atrophied over centuries as we became more domestic and removed from nature. I can't help but think there is some universal connection to encounters with cryptids, aliens, spirits, and whatever goes bump in the night. This fellow, Woodward TV, puts forth some interesting ideas about non-human entities in general. This video centers on "Mothman," but it discusses a principle he puts forth that is applicable to a lot of things: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQzqnulyKw It's not scientific, it's just his opinion, but it resonates with me at this point in my understanding. More experience info from a very interesting guy who, to me, has a degree of credibility about him. He is very independent on thought and big on not being influenced by opinions (or derision) of others. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rsvP7TTnlA Same guy on using trail cams - very interesting and factual: www.youtube.com/watch?v=f53f5y-8azo I think they know the trail cams are there and avoid them. We see animals checking out cams all the time. They know they are there, and can sense the emissions from the cams. He also talks about sixth sense. I'm not busting on your husband, but I would have been locked and loaded way before that, LOL. I wish I had concrete answers, but thanks again for sharing this encounter. There are so very many credible people reporting these encounters. That's what got me interested in the subject of dogman, and like others here I'm looking for answers. I'd love to see someone get some hard evidence, sharp photos, but I think Woodward might have a point in his video above. May not be any good photos or video forthcoming for us. There are a lot of brave souls out there looking now, and many are starting to post right here, so stay tuned.
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Eoin
Full Member
Organising credible sightings in Washington. Collecting data and forwarding to National.
Posts: 190
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Post by Eoin on Oct 21, 2019 17:37:31 GMT
Hi all!
Very interesting account especially the skat found. Are there any photos of what you saw or can you give a detailed description of both tracks and skat? It would go a long way when documenting this. Also, can you provide geo coordinates of where you were camping...again it’s a major part of the puzzle.
There are numerous accounts of persons feeling dread, and not only from a a Dogman sighting.
I live in the Pacific NW and this would be a wonderful case to pass along to Dev for a Field Investigation in Oregon.
Bee, would you have time to speak with me on the phone this week?
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Post by hellbentholler on Oct 21, 2019 18:25:34 GMT
A lot of Dogman accounts are accompanied by a feeling of receiving a message from the entity that they can do anything that they want and you are powerless to stop them. Linda Godfrey makes mention of this phenomenon. To me, this is one of the elements that separates Dogmen encounters from run-ins with Bigfoot. I don't believe that Sasquatch is our 'gentle forest brother' like others do, and if it is not outright inimical to us then it is an indifferent, opportunistic predator. While reports of 'mindspeak' or whatever you want to call it is reported in some Bigfoot encounters, the message of fear and hopelessness seems to go hand in hand (or paw) with Dogman.
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Post by trolljegeren on Oct 21, 2019 20:26:46 GMT
Intense story Bee! As ag47 mentioned, I wish more folks would write up their encounters, thanks for taking the time. I remember the first time I experienced that silence, a solo backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon. After 3 days of hiking along a narrow goat trail, not seeing another person, i stopped and attentively listened. It was a bit overwhelming and after a short bout of almost panic at my isolation, it was amazing!
I've heard no reports of bears telepathically communicating, None have ever "spoken" to me when we've met...but who knows? I was typically a little skeptical about that sort of thing, open minded but hesitant to accept some of the claims I came across, they seemed too far fetched in terms of the dialogue. Your experience of fear injection seems direct, primal and to the point, you're not getting recipes on how to prepare trout in the ancient forest people fashion.
What is your husband's take on what he saw? Sometimes we are wired not to believe what we see because it "can't" be. Hard to imagine asking someone not to look behind them, feeling we need get out of here because something was seen watching then let one of the party go off solo.
If you don't have any pics of the print/claw marks could you sketch to scale and post if you remember? That would be helpful in determining bear or no.
Maybe of interest?: I've had a similar fear injection whilst bushwhacking up a stream above an amazing un-mapped 60' high waterfall in N Maine that i happened upon. I was going for one of the 2 peaks this stream flowed down from. This was in a remote wilderness area with an historical Sasquatch incident though quite old. Anyway, I reached a small pond in the saddle between and clambered through dense underbrush to see if this pond had outflows on each side of the mountains. From there i stopped to take a compass bearing of the peak in an area with 3-8' high boulders and thicket-ey balsam/spruce and larger poplars. As i was looking down at the needle i heard a low but powerful, gutteral "whooompphh" sound at my 8 o'clock. I was instantly terrified. Chambered a .460 round and with pistol gripped in both hands pointing downward said aloud: "I'm going this way" and headed out at a quick pace. 50 feet or so later, i come to my senses and says to meself "what are you doing?? You've just heard a sound you don't recognize, in prime habitat and you're leaving?? My behavior confused me, surprised me, it wasn't me really...it was the fear, the strange injected fear that came so instantly at so "little". I put the pistol away, loaded, safety on and announce out loud: "maybe I'll just have a look around, don't mind me" in a calm tone of voice. I didn't see a thing, though i wasn't in for crossing the stream and investigating the other side but I regret not doing so.
Another incident in a different area i like to scout about, with a much more recent sasquatch sighting, deep woods, minor logging activity since the mills have closed. It's along a wide deep stream, up a ways from its confluence with the river, that i like to scramble through then return the 3 or so miles along an overgrown logging road that forms a low tunnel of trees in places. I'll spare some of the setting details but as i often did here, i was walking back in the dark, past my truck parked at the junction of the aforementioned trail and one that crossed the stream via a high logging bridge (now only suited to atv use),my destination for a cup of tea and a listen. It was about 30 degrees F and clear sky full of stars. Blahblah...After 20 min or so i finish up and start back the 1/4mile to the truck, get there and am unloading gear on the passenger side seat with the door open, flashlight in my teeth. i hear what i assume is a rock going through the trees opposite side of logging rd (i'm parked perpindicular to it's run) I shine the light up into the treetops to see branches moving across 2 trees in an arced trajectory and gauge where i heard the thud of the rock? hit at the base of a larger maple in line with arc. Things don't fall in arcs of their own accord! I'm highly focused at this point and intrigued. Step out into the road facing the direction of the stream and listen intently for a minute maybe then say aloud: "Did you throw that?" "Want to throw another or step out into the road?" In a state of suspension and intense, aware listening for anything, I hear clear as day from the inside of the rear portion of me brain "YOU HAVE A GUN" I did and instantly felt I had breached some trust. That's all I'll say about that because i just don't know what it was or what good speculating will do. That's what happened, it is what it is, but it was damn strange.
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Post by Elon on Oct 21, 2019 23:16:09 GMT
Hi all! Very interesting account especially the skat found. Are there any photos of what you saw or can you give a detailed description of both tracks and skat? It would go a long way when documenting this. Also, can you provide geo coordinates of where you were camping...again it’s a major part of the puzzle. There are numerous accounts of persons feeling dread, and not only from a a Dogman sighting. I live in the Pacific NW and this would be a wonderful case to pass along to Dev for a Field Investigation in Oregon. Bee, would you have time to speak with me on the phone this week? Yes sure I can talk anytime .
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Bee
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by Bee on Oct 22, 2019 12:48:31 GMT
Thanks for sharing your story, Bee! I'm hoping others will also continue to post their true encounters like this. I am not a scientist or investigator, but I know we've all read and heard many accounts of people getting emotions from dogman, bigfoot, and other unknown things they encounter. They usually describe sheer terror and fear for their lives like in your account. People who say they have encountered UFOs and aliens also describe non-verbal or telepathic communication. I'm so sorry your husband trivialized your warnings. That had to make it exponentially worse. My spouse can sense things (like if someone died in a place, or if there's something spiritually dark in a place). I don't feel what she feels, but I always give her credence. There are places where I tried to take her to show her around and she balked like a horse encountering a snake on a trail, and wouldn't go another step. One room in a building where I tried to take her, she stopped halfway down the hall and said, "There's something in that room, " and said she was not going any further. In that case I had felt it too, but I believed her anyway. I know of another case where someone I know told me of a harrowing supernatural experience she had in another room. She brought a lady who is a sensitive or medium to check it out and that lady balked at the threshold of the room and would not go in it at all. She was genuinely afraid for her safety. All these types of things say to me that we can see and feel things through senses we may not know we have, or that have atrophied over centuries as we became more domestic and removed from nature. I can't help but think there is some universal connection to encounters with cryptids, aliens, spirits, and whatever goes bump in the night. This fellow, Woodward TV, puts forth some interesting ideas about non-human entities in general. This video centers on "Mothman," but it discusses a principle he puts forth that is applicable to a lot of things: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQzqnulyKw It's not scientific, it's just his opinion, but it resonates with me at this point in my understanding. More experience info from a very interesting guy who, to me, has a degree of credibility about him. He is very independent on thought and big on not being influenced by opinions (or derision) of others. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rsvP7TTnlA Same guy on using trail cams - very interesting and factual: www.youtube.com/watch?v=f53f5y-8azo I think they know the trail cams are there and avoid them. We see animals checking out cams all the time. They know they are there, and can sense the emissions from the cams. He also talks about sixth sense. I'm not busting on your husband, but I would have been locked and loaded way before that, LOL. I wish I had concrete answers, but thanks again for sharing this encounter. There are so very many credible people reporting these encounters. That's what got me interested in the subject of dogman, and like others here I'm looking for answers. I'd love to see someone get some hard evidence, sharp photos, but I think Woodward might have a point in his video above. May not be any good photos or video forthcoming for us. There are a lot of brave souls out there looking now, and many are starting to post right here, so stay tuned. Thank you so much for writing and sharing your view point. My husband at the time was a city person and never was in nature so i think it was his ignorance of nature as to why he thought i was making it up. He learned later in the tent she should have listened hahaha...
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Bee
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by Bee on Oct 22, 2019 12:53:41 GMT
Intense story Bee! As ag47 mentioned, I wish more folks would write up their encounters, thanks for taking the time. I remember the first time I experienced that silence, a solo backpacking trip in the Grand Canyon. After 3 days of hiking along a narrow goat trail, not seeing another person, i stopped and attentively listened. It was a bit overwhelming and after a short bout of almost panic at my isolation, it was amazing! I've heard no reports of bears telepathically communicating, None have ever "spoken" to me when we've met...but who knows? I was typically a little skeptical about that sort of thing, open minded but hesitant to accept some of the claims I came across, they seemed too far fetched in terms of the dialogue. Your experience of fear injection seems direct, primal and to the point, you're not getting recipes on how to prepare trout in the ancient forest people fashion. What is your husband's take on what he saw? Sometimes we are wired not to believe what we see because it "can't" be. Hard to imagine asking someone not to look behind them, feeling we need get out of here because something was seen watching then let one of the party go off solo. If you don't have any pics of the print/claw marks could you sketch to scale and post if you remember? That would be helpful in determining bear or no. Maybe of interest?: I've had a similar fear injection whilst bushwhacking up a stream above an amazing un-mapped 60' high waterfall in N Maine that i happened upon. I was going for one of the 2 peaks this stream flowed down from. This was in a remote wilderness area with an historical Sasquatch incident though quite old. Anyway, I reached a small pond in the saddle between and clambered through dense underbrush to see if this pond had outflows on each side of the mountains. From there i stopped to take a compass bearing of the peak in an area with 3-8' high boulders and thicket-ey balsam/spruce and larger poplars. As i was looking down at the needle i heard a low but powerful, gutteral "whooompphh" sound at my 8 o'clock. I was instantly terrified. Chambered a .460 round and with pistol gripped in both hands pointing downward said aloud: "I'm going this way" and headed out at a quick pace. 50 feet or so later, i come to my senses and says to meself "what are you doing?? You've just heard a sound you don't recognize, in prime habitat and you're leaving?? My behavior confused me, surprised me, it wasn't me really...it was the fear, the strange injected fear that came so instantly at so "little". I put the pistol away, loaded, safety on and announce out loud: "maybe I'll just have a look around, don't mind me" in a calm tone of voice. I didn't see a thing, though i wasn't in for crossing the stream and investigating the other side but I regret not doing so. Another incident in a different area i like to scout about, with a much more recent sasquatch sighting, deep woods, minor logging activity since the mills have closed. It's along a wide deep stream, up a ways from its confluence with the river, that i like to scramble through then return the 3 or so miles along an overgrown logging road that forms a low tunnel of trees in places. I'll spare some of the setting details but as i often did here, i was walking back in the dark, past my truck parked at the junction of the aforementioned trail and one that crossed the stream via a high logging bridge (now only suited to atv use),my destination for a cup of tea and a listen. It was about 30 degrees F and clear sky full of stars. Blahblah...After 20 min or so i finish up and start back the 1/4mile to the truck, get there and am unloading gear on the passenger side seat with the door open, flashlight in my teeth. i hear what i assume is a rock going through the trees opposite side of logging rd (i'm parked perpindicular to it's run) I shine the light up into the treetops to see branches moving across 2 trees in an arced trajectory and gauge where i heard the thud of the rock? hit at the base of a larger maple in line with arc. Things don't fall in arcs of their own accord! I'm highly focused at this point and intrigued. Step out into the road facing the direction of the stream and listen intently for a minute maybe then say aloud: "Did you throw that?" "Want to throw another or step out into the road?" In a state of suspension and intense, aware listening for anything, I hear clear as day from the inside of the rear portion of me brain "YOU HAVE A GUN" I did and instantly felt I had breached some trust. That's all I'll say about that because i just don't know what it was or what good speculating will do. That's what happened, it is what it is, but it was damn strange. Thank you for replying. Your story is intense! I didn't take any photos of the scratches and poo and at the time i thought i was going to be killed so it was like my logical self was utterly scattered. And since I never heard of a Sasquatch or dogman before ever i just thought it was something weird that happened and not to think twice about the claw marks or weird poo. I could do my best to recall the memories and do a sketch. idk how to upload or anything like that here but i could email to someone? let me know whats needed and wanted and im happy to respond.
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Bee
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by Bee on Oct 22, 2019 12:56:20 GMT
A lot of Dogman accounts are accompanied by a feeling of receiving a message from the entity that they can do anything that they want and you are powerless to stop them. Linda Godfrey makes mention of this phenomenon. To me, this is one of the elements that separates Dogmen encounters from run-ins with Bigfoot. I don't believe that Sasquatch is our 'gentle forest brother' like others do, and if it is not outright inimical to us then it is an indifferent, opportunistic predator. While reports of 'mindspeak' or whatever you want to call it is reported in some Bigfoot encounters, the message of fear and hopelessness seems to go hand in hand (or paw) with Dogman. That is a horrifying thought isn't it. if that was stalking us i am lucky to still be here to tell the tale.
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Bee
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by Bee on Oct 22, 2019 13:18:00 GMT
Hi all! Very interesting account especially the skat found. Are there any photos of what you saw or can you give a detailed description of both tracks and skat? It would go a long way when documenting this. Also, can you provide geo coordinates of where you were camping...again it’s a major part of the puzzle. There are numerous accounts of persons feeling dread, and not only from a a Dogman sighting. I live in the Pacific NW and this would be a wonderful case to pass along to Dev for a Field Investigation in Oregon. Bee, would you have time to speak with me on the phone this week? It was 5 roughly, years ago so cant exactly remember the place because my husband pulled into this place off the side of the road we were meant to go to bend and stay in another place but he thought i would like this desolate place more so just randomly picked it and it didn't have a name--it was like you drove in this one lane dirt road and it winded along the river then you hit this area where it looked like a long time ago someone used it for making a camp fire and you can see a patch of earth bare that was used to place a tent. This road to get there was on the main highway from Portland to Mt Hood that continues on to bend. I remember distinctly it was this road because there was a creek that paralleled the road and that creek we followed along the road went for at least an hour maybe more? The scat desc. It was large, like a small horse in size so it came off the ground a ways shaped not like a dog poo more like a sloppy undefined "pile" and it was weird in this way that it was like hair and maybe sticks but not sure and other things that i have never seen mixed into it-- the color was a brownish type. Claw marks: i saw 4 claws and made one swipe in the earth it looked like it went from left to right and the poo was on the left of the claw mark--this was outside my tent next morning. I also saw one more place with a scratch in the dirt and that was about 1 mins walk near the creek where you could place another tent and the same things poo on the left and claw on the right. i just remember the claws both were the size of a dinner plate possibly an inch smaller and wondering why it poo'd almost on the tent then leave a big scratch in the dirt.
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Post by trolljegeren on Oct 23, 2019 2:12:55 GMT
If you can make a sketch just get a pic of it and upload with the uploader found under the upper Right corner "reply" button. Would be best to post it here so more eyes can get on it.
I understand how you'd not be in photo mode after and experience such as that.
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Oct 23, 2019 5:05:48 GMT
Bee, That was an incredible encounter you had and want to thank you for sharing it here with us, as it makes me feel like the more people that share, will allow us to get closer to finding out what these things are doing here. It makes me angry that they are here, they do not belong here. I also had a very terrifying telepathic encounter, that I will talk to Eoin about tomorrow, and I am very grateful to have this forum here so we can share and learn. I know I will have a hard time sleeping tonight just thinking about it and replaying it in my mind.
I am sure I will share my encounter here soon.
I do not know why these things like to terrorize people, I think I heard that they feed off of fear, which I do believe, and that sometimes pick on those that had traumatic experiences in their lives, because once you get that adrenaline up it leaves a trace scent that they can pick up on, but now i'm getting off on something I know nothing about.
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Oct 23, 2019 5:50:55 GMT
I was instantly terrified. Chambered a .460 round and with pistol gripped in both hands pointing downward said aloud: Now this guy is loaded for BF or DM with this pistol, yeah nice pistol, no wonder that BF did not want to mess with you.
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Post by ag47 on Oct 23, 2019 11:43:02 GMT
trolljegeren posted: Trolljegeren, which .460 cartridge is that and what pistol do you have? I should get one of those.
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Eoin
Full Member
Organising credible sightings in Washington. Collecting data and forwarding to National.
Posts: 190
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Post by Eoin on Oct 23, 2019 13:32:52 GMT
trolljegeren posted: Trolljegeren, which .460 cartridge is that and what pistol do you have? I should get one of those. S&W .460. It’s a revolver round, There are rifles that chamber the round also. Just shy of a .500.
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