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Post by balchr89 on Jan 18, 2020 23:55:28 GMT
Wow very nice investigation there, I like the way you are thinking. Have you read the post I made here about the Nagual? It tells the story about my mother inlaw telling about the dogmen that controlled the town she lived in. I also recommend listening to Dogman Encounters episode 53 with Abe Sias. He told me tonight he has had four encounters with them but he likes to talk if you want to talk to him let me know I can put you in touch with him. There are a lot more details to his encounters than what he talks about in the eps. 53 ,not just that but some of the other stuff he has seen. I was listening to something on TV a few years ago about skin walkers and they said that in order for you to join the cult of Indians that train you to become a skinwalker, you have to kill two of your closest relatives, like your mother and brother etc, to get accepted, because you have to give your soul to the devil and this is where this power they are getting comes from. I had read your Nagual story a while back and had been meaning to comment about how similar your mother-in-law's experience is to many of the stories in the book Witchcraft in the Southwest: Spanish and Indian Supernaturalism on the Rio Grande by Marc Simmons. It's mostly anecdotal accounts but historically interesting. Clyde Kluckhohn's Navaho Witchcraft is much more a piece of boots on the ground, anthropological, investigative writing. Both give a good foundation to understanding some of the dark practices happening in that dry corner of the world. It's reading accounts in these books and hearing of events such as your cousins encounter that gives some credence to the "transformation from human" theory that I have a hard time digesting the physiological requirements of...I mean HOW???
I was wondering about your comment regarding the skinwalkers giving of souls to a/the devil. I gather that carrying out the supposed murder of a loved one (or two) blackens one's soul to a non-redemptive degree. I cannot imagine the possibility of coming back from that and managing to pull off a quiet, wholesome domestic life. That solidly sets one's course on a "dark" widdershins path methinks. What I wonder is if the skinwalker-to-be is ritually giving up his soul to a/the devil, as I don't believe they see it that way. I'm not sure on that, but it does seem more of a Christian concept.
I listened to DE 53, interesting no doubt, 6 of them and he walks between them!! The only other incident where I've heard of that many DM happened about 2 hours from my place in ME, a farmhouse along the Madawaska bog. There was a Paranormal witness episode on it called Wolf Pack. It's also written up in one of Linda Godfrey's books. I've scouted the property and surrounding area a couple of times, crossing the frozen marsh, finding plenty of large coyote tracks but no oddities. I believe the Martins are still in the area, I've been meaning to talk with them for quite a while just to hear the story first hand. Their story here: www.syfy.com/paranormalwitness/episodes/season/3/episode/9/the-wolf-packAnd the marsh behind their place, from my visit, definitely a good location for a pack of DM. The clearing across the marsh behind the thin tree line is the location of the incident:
Far side of the bog, fresh coyote tracks, I spooked them out from the woods as I went in.
Nice coyote tracks:
Neato, I really enjoy when i get to walk the ground of a "historical" encounter. Things either make more sense or make things absolutely seem like bunk.
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Jan 19, 2020 0:33:26 GMT
I had read your Nagual story a while back and had been meaning to comment about how similar your mother-in-law's experience is to many of the stories in the book Witchcraft in the Southwest: Spanish and Indian Supernaturalism on the Rio Grande by Marc Simmons. It's mostly anecdotal accounts but historically interesting. Clyde Kluckhohn's Navaho Witchcraft is much more a piece of boots on the ground, anthropological, investigative writing. Both give a good foundation to understanding some of the dark practices happening in that dry corner of the world. It's reading accounts in these books and hearing of events such as your cousins encounter that gives some credence to the "transformation from human" theory that I have a hard time digesting the physiological requirements of...I mean HOW???
I was wondering about your comment regarding the skinwalkers giving of souls to a/the devil. I gather that carrying out the supposed murder of a loved one (or two) blackens one's soul to a non-redemptive degree. I cannot imagine the possibility of coming back from that and managing to pull off a quiet, wholesome domestic life. That solidly sets one's course on a "dark" widdershins path methinks. What I wonder is if the skinwalker-to-be is ritually giving up his soul to a/the devil, as I don't believe they see it that way. I'm not sure on that, but it does seem more of a Christian concept.
I listened to DE 53, interesting no doubt, 6 of them and he walks between them!! The only other incident where I've heard of that many DM happened about 2 hours from my place in ME, a farmhouse along the Madawaska bog. There was a Paranormal witness episode on it called Wolf Pack. It's also written up in one of Linda Godfrey's books. I've scouted the property and surrounding area a couple of times, crossing the frozen marsh, finding plenty of large coyote tracks but no oddities. I believe the Martins are still in the area, I've been meaning to talk with them for quite a while just to hear the story first hand. Their story here: www.syfy.com/paranormalwitness/episodes/season/3/episode/9/the-wolf-packAnd the marsh behind their place, from my visit, definitely a good location for a pack of DM. The clearing across the marsh behind the thin tree line is the location of the incident:
Balchr89, I understand how you feel about this whole thing being hard to believe, I also have to admit that it is hard for me to believe also, its just really far fetched. The more I hear about it the more I am starting to become more open to the possibilities. The way I understood it was in this evil ceremony the Indian becomes one with the demonic entity, which makes sense because if you look into demonic possession, for instance a story I heard on Sasquatch Chronicles, Wes was interviewing a ex police officer and asked what was the strangest thing he ever saw and he it was this guy they arrested that was demonically possessed, and he only weighed 110 pounds but it took 6 huge policeman to put the cuffs on him and during that they had him chest to the ground and this guy turned his head all of the way around and looked at them, and he may have said he saw him walking on a wall, but not sure about that one. The Indian's terminology for demonic was probably evil spirit, but same thing.
I know that all of this is much more difficult to believe if you do not believe in a God or a devil, you want to fight this belief with every thing you have. It's not my roll to try to convince anyone other wise.
Wes said something the other day that I think is going have an impact on many listeners, he said that he has found out that every single person that reports seeing a BF on their property has also seen lights in the woods.
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Post by trolljegeren on Jan 19, 2020 4:27:11 GMT
Dogflabber, do you recall which Sas Chron that was? And I guess it's not so much a question of beliefs for me as I don't necessarily go that route with regard to what is possible here--yet. Not that I'd rule anything out beforehand, we know far too little at this stage, but with so many possibilities and theories I'm more inclined towards what facts I can glean and work from there, from the ground up so to speak:) All fear aside, if I ever ran into one of these things, if it's the last thing I do, I'm going to ask "what the H are you"
Interesting about the lights in the woods, I know they were seen in Madawaska bog a couple or few nights before the 5 dogmen surrounded the Martin's place. Outside of that, I have not heard that mentioned in too many Sas sighting accounts
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Jan 20, 2020 5:57:28 GMT
I really do not remember which one it was I listen to one every time I get in the car, but there is another one that I thought was also interesting and Wes refers to it as the Two Brothers , but don't know if that is the way he has it labeled, but its about these guys that buy a cabin in the woods and have Sasquatch terrorizing them, and they get a medium to go there, and she said that they were demons, One of the brothers saw a woman walking through the field next to his cabin so he ran over there, and found out she was a witch, or demon, sorry I don't remember all the details, and then there was another one that this psychic said they were empty vessels.
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Jan 20, 2020 5:58:49 GMT
I really do not remember which one it was I listen to one every time I get in the car, but there is another one that I thought was also interesting and Wes refers to it as the Two Brothers , but don't know if that is the way he has it labeled, but its about these guys that buy a cabin in the woods and have Sasquatch terrorizing them, and they get a medium to go there, and she said that they were demons, One of the brothers saw a woman walking through the field next to his cabin so he ran over there, and found out she was a witch, or demon, sorry I don't remember all the details, and then there was another one that this psychic said they were empty vessels. Ohh the lights in the woods, yes that was one of his more resent shows.
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Jan 20, 2020 6:01:16 GMT
I want to be clear , he does not say that everyone that sees a BF is seeing lights, he said that everyone that sees them on their property is seeing lights, I guess because they are having more of a habitual type of encounter with these guys.
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Post by trolljegeren on Jan 21, 2020 3:56:57 GMT
I want to be clear , he does not say that everyone that sees a BF is seeing lights, he said that everyone that sees them on their property is seeing lights, I guess because they are having more of a habitual type of encounter with these guys. Got it!
I've been out of the Sas Chron loop for quite a few years, used to be an avid listener til some issues around him going monetized without his brother and Will Jevning leaving over what seemed to be integrity issues with some stories. I'm not sure on that so take it with a grain of salt or 3, it's been a while. I heard plenty of credible sounding accounts on the show in the time I did listen and think it's a great resource. I don't recall hearing so many elements of the high strangeness such as witches and psychic investigators though. I'l have to peruse his yt page and see what's new.
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DogFlabber
Full Member
Texas, Sam Houston National Forest, BF/DM Rules The Night
Posts: 175
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Post by DogFlabber on Jan 22, 2020 5:47:10 GMT
I understand the integrity part of it, but I know that a lot of people don't like one of the well known researchers T.S. but on probably 4 occasions I have heard witnesses say that the BF they saw looked just like one T.S. has on his site.
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Post by ag47 on Jan 23, 2020 1:44:22 GMT
Good quality photos. Thanks.
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