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Post by carljenkins on Mar 29, 2021 5:02:58 GMT
I first heard of the attack on the family at the Land Between the Lakes that allegedly occurred in March 1982, from a story by Coonbo Baker a few years ago. I always wondered whether this was just an urban legend, because no one, including officers/law enforcement on scene, friends or family members of the victims, have ever come forward. Now one supposedly comes forward.
You be the judge. I actually haven't listened to the entire video yet.
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Post by carljenkins on Mar 29, 2021 6:05:35 GMT
Wow! This is the most incredible eyewitness story of the LBL attack that I've heard in years. The witness, Roger, claims to have been with the family and witnessed the attack. Roger claims he was 15 years old at the time, and had received permission from his family to go camping with that family in the LBL, which he didn't know the name of at the time. It was April 7, 1982. Roger claims the family had left the Amish community and were in a new RV, which Roger even knew the model: a 1982 Holiday Imperial. And they were towing a Chevette. Roger states he even brought his 410 shotgun to go target shooting with them. They had sold their farm to the Amish so they bought the RV, and had possibly $20,000 in cash in small safe in the RV. He even knew the names of the victims:
Levi - the father
Diane - the mother
Steven - the son (13 y/o)
Connie - the daughter (9 y/o)
Roger states at the time of the attack, he heard a commotion and yelling outside the RV, and Levi opens the door and grabs his 20ga pump shotgun. Roger states he saw the creature holding Steven, and Levi took a shot, hitting Steven and hitting the creature in the shoulder. Roger states Levi did not kill Steven, and that Steven was already dead. Roger states the creature then attacks and kills Levi. Roger states he ran back into the RV, and as the creature passes by, he takes a shot at the creature. Roger then states that he turned coward, and rolled under the RV, and states a separate creature starts attacking the RV, because he heard Diane scream that its getting in through the window. Roger states he then ran and flagged down a passerby who took him to his farm and made a phone call.
Roger states he was taken back to the scene by unknown government men, and he was able to see what happened. Roger disputes that Diane was torn to shreds like in the stories. Roger states the little girl, Connie, was found back behind the RV. Roger also states that it was the creature who was found in the tree, and it probably bled out there, but it had a piece of Connie's sweatshirt in its hands. Roger stated he thinks there were at least two of the creatures, because the creature who bled out and died in the tree had been shot by Levi and him. So another creature had to have gotten in to kill Diane.
I have to say, this story is very compelling, and it's a slightly different take on the attack at LBL, with details that have never been heard of before.
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Post by carljenkins on Mar 29, 2021 6:41:36 GMT
This picture supposedly is the closest to what Roger thinks resembles the dogmen.   |
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Post by somerandomuser on Mar 29, 2021 7:33:42 GMT
Interesting I think the NADP did a documentary on this. That looks really cat like I know it's just a picture but the gapping between canines are what 2 or 2.5 inches apart on the biggest of bears, once again only just a picture but the teeth super interesting spread quite far. I know that there have been reports of upright walking bigcats iirc there was one in PA iirc the guy was driving a Pantera and had a really similar name if not exactly like the lead singer for Pantera I read this so long ago maybe it was just a Pantera car involved ( I have weird mnemonics to remember things) iirc this was late 1980's or early to mid 1990's that this incident happened. I wonder sometimes if there is a lot more out there than what we hear about, I'll try to find that story/report.
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Post by carljenkins on Mar 29, 2021 7:48:42 GMT
Interesting I think the NADP did a documentary on this. That looks really cat like I know it's just a picture but the gapping between canines are what 2 or 2.5 inches apart on the biggest of bears, once again only just a picture but the teeth super interesting. I know that there have been reports of upright walking bigcats iirc there was one in PA iirc the guy was driving a Pantera and had a really similar name if not exactly like the lead singer for Pantera I read this so long ago maybe it was just a Pantera car involved ( I have weird mnemonics to remember things) iirc this was late 1980's or early to mid 1990's that this incident happened. I wonder sometimes if there is a lot more out there than what we hear about, I'll try to find that story/report. Yes, it really is interesting. The date I heard of was March 1982, I think I heard that on one of Coonbo Baker's broadcast, but this witness, Roger, gave an exact date; April 7, 1982. Furthermore, he disputes some of the details that have been told about this incident: 1. Levi was not wearing cologne, and Diane did not even wear makeup. Roger states that this family were ex-Amish, so that would make sense. They had sold their farm to buy the RV. 2. The daughter (Connie), was not the one found in the tree. He is pretty adamant about that. He states it was the creature that bled out and died in the tree, but it did have a piece of her sweat shirt. 3. The wife (Diane), was not torn to shreds. 4. Roger did not see the 2nd dogman, but he was sure it was there because Diane was screaming it was getting inside through the back window. 5. Roger hid in the framework under the RV. He carries a lot of guilt because he feels he could have done something else, even though he could see Levi laying on top of the shotgun about 5 feet away from where he was hiding. You can't blame a 15 year old kid for acting the way he did, and it was probably what saved his life. 6. This family had left the LaGrange Amish community in Indiana. |
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Post by somerandomuser on Mar 29, 2021 9:21:05 GMT
I'm listening to it now, super interesting but makes so much sense as to why family no one reached out wondering where family members are. Some communities when members leave that's it the entire community turns there back, not sure if it's the same with the Amish but seen it with other similar religious communities.
Super interesting 20ga is what 1200 fps a 410 I think is roughly the same... I wonder the round used the "shoulder" lots of arteries and the heart on people anyways is pretty much a straight line. Really interesting what was the motivation for the attack? The animals come through a ravine and attacks I can understand if they were surprised but most animals will maybe fight but they are wanting out, odd that the second one finds his buddy in a fight and decides to take the initiative and attacked into the RV. I wonder something the LBL also has bigfoot reports I wonder if perhaps these things thought there was some sort of issue with a BF and went to defend their territory but maybe it was surprise of seeing people then everything went awry.. doesn't explain a secondary one taking initiative to engage occupants of the RV. Really interesting when talking about the 410 round that impacted the shoulder blade area, I remember years ago we had a guy fall climbing a railcar he had not yet made it to the top and lost his grip went down straight flat on his back, his shoulderblade literally was in pieces and when the fracture happened a small piece of bone punctured his lung, I assume upright really looks to have that appearance of human possibly the round to the shoulderblade might have caused small bone pieces to explode into the lung, just a thought on why it may have died.. but then again shoulder shot from the side not good from the armpit to the heart pretty direct.
I don't expect nor would I want any 15 year old to join in a last stand scenario, I can understand the guilt he feels but also this isn't the neighbor's big dog where you swat it on the nose with a newspaper for getting into the trash, he did what he had to do. As an adult even if it's the end I wouldn't be upset if he hid, ran away or whatever in fact I would be upset if a child got hurt along side of me and to me that would be shameful. In the end let others escape cut off your own avenues of escape and fight, you will be more resigned to your fate if there is no escape and can better focus on the fight.
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Post by carljenkins on Mar 29, 2021 10:41:49 GMT
I like how he doesn't try to fit his story into the general prevalent narrative. The ongoing theory for the reason for the attack was that the father was wearing heavy cologne, which may have triggered the attack. Yet Roger made a point of saying Levi didn't wear cologne and Diane didn't even wear make up. So we're left wondering what may have triggered the attack, if there was a cause for the incident at all. What the witness says is that Levi and Steven went to go get some fire wood. The witness then goes on to state is that he heard a commotion and yelling, and then Levi opening the door to grab the shotgun.
Same with the alleged 2nd dogman, which the witness didn't see, but is sure broke into the RV to kill Diane. The creature that the witness describes that he did witness, was muscular, but around six to six and a half feet tall. We're heard reports of dogmen being up to 8ft tall. Perhaps the attacker was a female or juvenile dogman? The 2nd dogman, if there was one, maybe it was a parent or mate of the first one? - Purely conjecture on my part. We have to remember that this story is through the eyes of a 15 year old who was in shock at the time. So really, we're left without a motive for the attack. But then again, maybe there isn't one and that the dogmen attack was unprovoked, or they were simply hungry. We just don't know.
Anyway, there should be more to this story since Roger agreed to even to a Q and A. He just wants to know what happened to the family. He wants to let people know that this family was real and they existed.
With all that said, again, I find the story compelling. But my background does not allow me to believe someone's story without at least some corroborating evidence or testimony to back it up. As Roger claims to be the sole survivor, his story at this point, remains just a story, albeit a compelling one. In any case, the information that this witness has given, further adds to the story of the murders at LBL.
According to Coonbo Baker, army personnel arrived from nearby Ft Campbell, formed a skirmish line, and hunted down and killed the dogman responsible for the murders. How true that is, is anyone's guess.
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Post by somerandomuser on Mar 29, 2021 12:33:16 GMT
Well there is always a ton of guess work even if you are on location at the time never mind hearing it if even first hand. Heck two weeks ago I came home and found my cat dangling from her cat tree where she has a basket she sleeps in, she was hanging on with one paw to the underneath of the basket.. no idea how or why. That's just a cat being uncoordinated I guess but still can't figure out how it happened. I think I would love to know if this picture was made by an artist working with him, this is really what I want to know. If that's the case the ears are very interesting, the hands and fingers also., if it's not the case then what in that picture is incorrect?
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Post by carljenkins on Mar 30, 2021 5:52:08 GMT
Ok, I had a chance today to listen closely to the video again. The witness (Roger) seems to be credible. He generally answered each question right away without having to think of the answer. This is because either: a) he was telling the truth; b) rehearsed any possible answers; c) the interviewers coordinated with him and told him the questions in advance. I'm leaning toward a: that he's telling the truth. I say this because he was able to name a significant detail: the model of the RV, and the interviewers tried to trip him up by asking him what the layout of the RV was. Now, that's not to say that he still isn't lying. Because by giving the model of the RV, he could anticipate a question about the layout of the RV. In my experience, people who are skilled at lying, can sound very credible. I know this because people lie straight to my face on a daily basis, and I have to stand their with a straight face and pretend that I believe them. Seriously.
The lack of sound or smells. Roger mentioned that these creatures did not make any sound unless hit by the shotgun, nor were there horrible smells. So no growls, howls, or any other displays of dominance to drive away the family. This can mean only one thing, they were hunting and my guess would be that this was an attempt to snatch the children. But Levi fought back and rage ensued. But if this was a hunt, and there was a 2nd dogman, why didn't the 2nd dogman carry away Connie to be consumed later?
Roger mentioned that Connie was in the RV with her mother, Diane when the attack first happened. Yet he mentions that the first dogman, who bled out in the tree, had a piece of her sweat shirt. That would mean he got a piece of her after she was taken out of the RV or she fled the RV when her mother was being attacked and the dogman who was injured, got a piece of her sweat shirt, then climbed the tree to bleed out and die. This does not make sense if there was a 2nd dogman.
Last of all, the thing that Roger did not address was why was he not in school? This was supposedly April 7, 1982 and he was 15 years old, possibly in 8th or 9th grade. He did not mention if it was Easter Vacation or anything.
While it is a very compelling story, and the witness appears to be initially very credible, it is still not without questions that need to be answered.
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Post by somerandomuser on Mar 30, 2021 9:06:10 GMT
Super odd... I remember reading that in the "Gombe Chimp War" the chimps would be very quite and have purpose before encountering the other chimps, this behavior has been seen in other chimp on chimp violence also consuming a fallen combatant didn't happen. Everything pretty much was to conceal activity until it was too late.
The lack of consuming a dead prey item also is odd after all was done even had one of the creatures fallen and assuming a human equivalent intelligence we are talking between the end of hostilities 15 minutes (when Roger felt safe enough to leave) then maybe another 45 minutes it took another 15 minutes to find the first person then that guy drove him for 15 minutes, then figure someone to drive out.. there was plenty of time to grab a body and go even if one of the creatures died and if the second creature dragged him into a tree just to hide or obfuscate his get away.. there was plenty of time and opportunity. It is just very strange.
I think that the picture kind of throws me a bit I am guessing the arms are a bit longer that way it can operate both plantigrade and digigrade with facultative bipedalism. I want to know about the feet, I notice the foot the big toe is back a bit actually a common thing with baboons (olive or yellow baboons) although sometimes it's to the side. The calf muscle is pretty good size also makes me think it's pretty bipedal like mainly bipedal.
I always like to see the person that gives a little more to work with when assessing truth.
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Post by carljenkins on Mar 30, 2021 11:36:21 GMT
I think the picture depicts the werewolf/hyena type vs the more wolf-like type of dogman. But at one point, Roger stated it looked like a german shepard. This is why eyewitness testimony can be somewhat unreliable under highly stressful conditions. Add to the fact that this occurred 40 years ago. If you have 20 eyewitnesses to an event, you can have up to 20 different recollections of what occurred. I remember in the academy, we were in class, then without warning, a person came in and robbed the instructor and left. Then we were told to give a physical description of the suspect. You would not believe the different descriptions that the class gave, some of which were nothing like what the suspect was wearing, etc. That was the start of being instructed on how to observe and retain details. This is why law enforcement personnel are trained observers, unlike most of the general public.
So its quite understandable how details that Roger gave can be different, etc.
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Post by Minnesota watcher on Mar 31, 2021 1:30:36 GMT
Roger's interview is one of the most fascinating dogman -- or violent sasquatch -- interviews that I have ever encountered, and I have listened to many dozens of them. The content is plausible. I note that his critics among the YouTube commenters base their shots at him on previously heard second and third hand evidence that has never been independently substantiated. The fact Roger wants to investigate further what happened to the bodies promises many more potential insights into these awful events. Violent cryptids seem established in the LBL. Let's figure that out.
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Post by David on Mar 31, 2021 12:13:51 GMT
Not to be rude but the gentleman's story does not add up. He is openly admitting to seeing a murder take place and seeing the bodies himself. Fact is law enforcement would not bring him back to the scene to contaminate it. Joedy who is one of the founders of NADP did an in depth review of this story. Its absolutely full of flaws. If any of you are members on facebook or friends with Joedy I highly suggest you watch his video. Now just to add if any of you are eyewitnesses yourselves you should be aware this Roger fellow openly called other eyewitnesses cowards. This is not acceptable behavior in this field.
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Post by somerandomuser on Apr 1, 2021 5:13:38 GMT
It's like any other story/encounter we have no way to verify anything. Anyhow does anyone know how wild animal attacks where a fatality occurs are investigated? What if there was a witness? Perhaps looking at the investigative steps can help with seeing how authentic the story is. IIRC the original story the local LE wasn't in charge it was more of Federal govt be it some agency or the military after the area and bodies were found. In the end it is something to listen to and anything of notable importance noted and compared to other similar events with similar creatures. I will say that the birdshot was different but I just listen to encounters for certain things, I could careless if he saw a creature and hid under his trailer with a leaky pipe and made up being there as long as he describes what the creature was doing, features and behavior/sounds or anything pertinent.
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Post by Minnesota watcher on Apr 1, 2021 20:15:30 GMT
Looks like Joedy and company are preparing a critique of this newly appearing survivor so it will be interesting to see how the developing debate proceeds. The temperature is rising . . .
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