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Post by White Feather on Jul 22, 2017 0:59:03 GMT
I don't think you've lost your senses either AG47. Wasn't it Sherlock Holmes who said, "Once you've eliminated the impossible, whatever is left no matter how improbable, is the truth."? We can't do that unless we explore all possibilities, regardless of how outlandish they seem at first.
I would never dismiss an account based on someone's inability to articulate nor for having a poor vocabulary. I was referring to the instances when someone makes a patently ridiculous assertion, such as the .50AE duty weapon, and when the interviewer doesn't call that assertion into question both lose their credibility in my opinion. I understand that most people these days know very little about firearms and can easily overlook a simple mistake such as misidentifying the exact model of gun they carry or confusing a single-action/ double-action autoloader with a double-action only model. The red flags pop up for me when they make a statement that illustrates an utter lack of knowledge. I would find it hard to believe that anyone claiming they chased off a Dogman with a "pump-action .30-30 shotgun" had ever even actually held a gun. Yes, I know I keep coming back to firearms here. I don't do it intentionally, the simple fact is I have forty years of experience with them and this is where I'm most likely to notice inconsistencies.
I also noticed that there are some small clues here and there that someone (Gov't) does know about them and wants to keep it quiet.
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Post by ag47 on Jul 22, 2017 11:12:21 GMT
White Feather, I just wanted to make sure you know that I didn't mean to imply that you would. I don't think that. I think you are a very credible person yourself and I find your comments interesting and informative.
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Post by White Feather on Aug 5, 2017 0:39:30 GMT
Thanks AG47,
I'm glad you understood what I meant. It's difficult enough for those of us with a genuine interest in the subject to gather information. When an Interviewer shares a story containing statements which are both verifiable and unlikely to be true without performing any due diligence it does nothing but muddy the water for us all.
Since I don't have access to the persons reporting such statements, I feel the only logical response is to dismiss the account. Should that person provide verification on department letterhead that they are allowed to carry a 50AE D.E. on duty I am certainly willing to re-evaluate the report.
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Post by ag47 on Aug 5, 2017 12:21:19 GMT
White Feather, I agree.
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Post by White Feather on Aug 6, 2017 11:11:15 GMT
AG47,
I'd like to expound, and get your thoughts, on an idea I mentioned earlier. Namely, if there was a connection between Dogman encounters and the people missing from wilderness areas. I gather that Dave Paulides has done a thorough job of documenting clusters of missing people in his books, and I think it would be worthwhile for someone with access to a large number of Dogman reports to evaluate any correspondences.
One thing that routinely comes up in the cases Mr. Paulides investigates is the abnormal behavior of search dogs. It seems that at times they utterly refuse to track the scent trail. Why would a dog trained for search and rescue be unwilling to do it? It occurred to me while I was listening to Vic Cundiff's show on Friday that a common thread among Dogman reports is that dogs in the area also behave strangely, often exhibiting a great deal of fear.
I'm no expert, but I do know that dogs in general are not instinctively afraid of boars, bears, or large cats. This leads me to think that if the missing people were victims of depredation by common animals the search dogs would not hesitate to track them.
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Post by ag47 on Aug 6, 2017 18:08:38 GMT
I share that train of thought that dogman (and perhaps other elusive cryptids) may be involved in such disappearances. As has been said, the dissapeared can't tell their stories because they're, well, disappeared, lol. I just have the overwhelming feeling after taking in so much information people are putting out on these subjects, that the world is not quite what I was brought up to think it was. Paulides is a very interesting speaker and the short videos on canam missing are interesting. That being said, I bought one of his books (with shipping it ended up costing me $37), and I found it very dry reading. The book did reflect a lot of research into what information was available, some of which is very old and very sketchy. I just bought his movie which set me back around $25 and honestly, I was really disappointed in it. I guess I was expecting him presenting it like he does in his interviews, but it's not like that. The biggest thing I did not like is his choice of the main case to feature (the DeOrr case) which seemed to me to be one of the most suspicious cases he could have chosen, and it dominated the dvd. That case just did not give me a good feeling, and I think there were so many other cases that would have illustrated the clearly mysterious aspects of these disappearances. Unfortunately, (in a yt video I saw a while back) Dave was the one who made the .30-30 pump shotgun comment, which almost knocked me out of the chair. I was extremely disappointed when I heard that. Maybe he was just tired and mis-spoke (I could not do the amount of interviews and talking he does without accidentally saying something I didn't mean, Iknow that, so maybe I'm just being hyper-critical). I can't find the YT video where he said it. If I come across it again, I'll let you know. It did make me think, and step back a little. The dog behaviour Dave describes is very chilling, as is the similar fear behaviour described by people who had dogs with them when they encountered something. I think animals see, hear, and otherwise sense things we cannot. I've had pets that just suddenly started watching an area of empty space in a room as if someone or something just came in and was standing there (creeped me out). If animals are showing fear, I tend to think there is a real reason, and I think it's a noteworthy factor in this stuff. There is a guy, Jay (or Jae) Woodward who has a channel, WoodwardTV on Youtube. He is a very good short video maker and addresses just about every woo-woo topic I've been encountering online for the past ten years. He does a lot of research and when he makes his ten or fifteen minute presentation on a topic, he presents a fairly well-rounded overview of the topic. His videos are entertaining. He just did one on mothman and other cryptids. It sort of echoed something I've been feeling about this stuff, that a lot of it is the same thing just taking on a different appearance, and it's not normal flesh & blood. I know that is a baseless speculation, but it makes as much sense as anything else on it. Trying to fit dogman, bigfoot, the Jersey Devil, etc., into a 'undiscovered species' slot always seems to feel like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Woodward's video is here www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQzqnulyKw Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UC8-LhLmfkg0KStfM5qUuhyw So far, every video of his that I've listened to has been entertaining at least. It's his opinion, but interesting. If those links won't work because of the viglink crapola that runs scripts on this board, just copy the link as text and drop it into your browser url field as plain text (just copy, not copy link).
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Post by White Feather on Aug 7, 2017 1:30:48 GMT
The difference with Paulides is that he's not giving a personal account. He is simply compiling and cross-referencing existing information which is independently verifiable, so his own level of expertise is irrelevant. Even though the cases he investigates must share a number of common criteria, I've had the thought that his methodology doesn't rule out multiple, widely disparate causes as effectively as people seem to think.
The human brain is specifically wired to search for, and recognize, patterns. This ability has served us very well in long term species survival, but it does make us susceptible to mentally imposing patterns where none actually exist. The point I'm getting at, to use your analogy, is that Dave Paulides may be jamming a square pegs into a round holes.
Like you, I've also wondered if I was too critical at times. What I concluded was that there are already a fair number of folks who accept reports as entirely truthful and accurate without any hesitation, which I think makes it vital that guys like you and I are willing to play the villain's role and try to debunk, or at least skeptically analyze, what is being reported.
Thanks for the links and listening to my ramblings.
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Post by ag47 on Aug 7, 2017 10:48:13 GMT
White Feather, your ideas are welcome and I agree. Thank you also.
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Post by prairiewildman on Aug 20, 2017 4:47:18 GMT
My uninformed opinion is that they are nothing more than flesh & blood creatures, now from whence they came, I have no idea. Not even going to guess.
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Post by ag47 on Aug 21, 2017 11:51:20 GMT
The flesh & blood hypothesis could be right too. Dogman could also be different things, or different forms of the same thing. It could be the result of genetic manipulation (which could even account for the ancient depictions of jackal or dog-headed human beings, as many believe fallen angels messed with the dna of animals, but that's a deep rabbit hole in and of itself). Some of the accounts I've taken in though make me truly wonder if we're seeing, in some cases, things that are not normal denizens of this 3D earth in which we exist. J Woodward (WoodwardTV) has an interesting theory on cryptids and paranormal "things:" www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQzqnulyKw I watch his channel because he is very skilled at making entertaining short videos, and has a fantastic delivery, imho. He also gives a rounded presentation on each of his subjects, covering a whole lot of information that is floating around out there. If anyone wants to learn what's being said about any given weird subject online, his videos really reflect a lot of research into the subjects. Not saying he is an authority, or is even right on a lot of stuff (although I suspect he is), just that he puts some effort into it and makes entertaining videos. I think the bigfoot guys are going to start encountering this dogman thing. There are too many reports from credible people for it to all be imagination, or other explainable stuff. I think it's out there. I strongly hope for some good evidence.
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Post by White Feather on Aug 24, 2017 15:54:50 GMT
Hello Prairiewildman,
That's exactly what AG47 and I have been discussing. Dogmen have been reported eating, drinking, in different stages of maturity, and in at least one case, dead. All strong indicators of biological existence. On the other hand there are reports that clearly do not conform to biological entities, or obey the laws of physics.
One aspect that I find difficult to reconcile is that while there is a rather large amount of anecdotal evidence, Dogmen do not appear in the fossil record. While this, in itself, does not preclude their existence, it is unusual. Secondarily, it seems there are loosely consistent reports dating from ancient Egypt until the 18th century, and then a fairly well defined period of very sporadic reports continuing until the mid 20th century when accounts once again increase. Like their absence from the fossil record, this does not preclude their existence but it is suspicious.
AG47, I see that you are a moderator now. Perhaps you can answer a question for me. Back when I first posted here I applied for membership which was never granted. Can you tell me why it was declined? I don't believe I've ever violated any board rule, and certainly not intentionally. Thanks.
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Post by ag47 on Aug 24, 2017 17:12:27 GMT
White Feather, can you register so I can PM you? If you don't want to use your email, you can set up a gmail or whatever and use that.
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Post by whitefeather on Aug 24, 2017 19:34:41 GMT
No need AG47,
I went through the process again and it seems to have worked.
Thanks
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Post by ag47 on Aug 24, 2017 21:37:13 GMT
Whitefeather, excellent! Glad that's solved. I think it was just a glitch. No reason or anything.
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Post by prairiewildman on Aug 24, 2017 23:47:02 GMT
As far as a Dogman being found dead; its brings to mind a photograph that appeared on the forums back in the late 1990s to early 2000s. It was called the DeRidder Roadkill, the creature was supposedly found dead on the side of DeRidder Road in Louisiana. At the time, everyone was saying it was a 'Cajun Werewolf'. There are varying accounts as to what happened to the remains; the person who found it took the creature or parts of it, the state government swooped in, cordoned off the site & took the remains, its was "mysteriously" gone the following morning, or it was just left and nature took its course. I have no idea which one is the true one, if any. There aren't many photographs of the creature, maybe 9 or 10 at most. Personally, I think it looks more like a dead baboon.
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